Wordnik.com: Better Ways To Say You're Not Feeling All That Positive: Comments

Comment by reesetee, over 2 years ago

Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:24:04 +0000

Agreed, AZ. That's part of the reason I found that little tidbit so interesting. :-)

Comment by abraxaszugzwang, over 2 years ago

Sun, 04 Mar 2007 09:44:04 +0000

what a great link reesetee. I know my family has had such arguments with retailers before. My mission now is to remember what arguments those were.

But when discussing these issues of particulars, it's important to be clear. Part of the response is unclear and incorrectly worded: 'would they also agree that “any mushroom, pepperoni or sausage pizza�? is equivalent to “any mushroom sausage pizza or pepperoni sausage pizza�??'

Comment by reesetee, over 2 years ago

Sun, 04 Mar 2007 09:38:38 +0000

Not to stray once more from the purpose of this list...well, yes, I'm straying. But I thought this CMS question (first one on the page) might be of interest to the Comma Community. ;-)

Comment by reesetee, over 2 years ago

Sat, 03 Mar 2007 14:52:23 +0000

Oroboros, once I find the name for that experience, it's going on my "It Has a Name??" list!

And here's my list suggestion: blue.

Comment by oroboros, over 2 years ago

Sat, 03 Mar 2007 08:14:20 +0000

For some weird reason the word 'maid' suddenly looks strange to me! Ever had that experience? Also, I'm wondering: what's the difference between a tangent and a 'complete tangent'? Uh oh, is this another tangent? Oh! and here: down in the dumps (or is that too many words?).

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sat, 03 Mar 2007 06:17:35 +0000

I love both the singular fashion in which these comments have gone off at a complete tangent, and also the suggestions for the list which occasionally crop up. From now on, inflammatory comments will be acceptable only if accompanied by a suggestion for the list...
...regardless of the fact that I have absolutely no way of enforcing this.

Comment by chained_bear, over 2 years ago

Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:24:08 +0000

lachrymose?

Comment by uselessness, over 2 years ago

Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:38:25 +0000

seanahan: I don't understand the idea of the "Betty, a maid and a rabbit" as a counterexample simply because the message is unclear regardless of comma use. Is Betty a maid? Is she a maid and a rabbit (i.e., a rabbit-maid)? Is she entirely separate from both the maid and the rabbit? Neither the serial comma nor its absence clears this up. If it were a true counterexample, it would be more clear without the comma... but it's not.

That said, I'm still waiting for a true counterexample to emerge. I don't think there are any at present. So with no good reason to abandon the serial comma I'll keep using it, for the reason I mentioned earlier: the pause it indicates is most helpful for the pace of a sentence.

Additionally, we have strayed most far from the purpose of this list. And that makes me glum. :-)

Comment by sionnach, over 2 years ago

Thu, 01 Mar 2007 21:41:28 +0000

I'd like to have betty, the maid, and the rabbit over for some chocolate, vanilla, and, straw,berry, ice,cream.

Comment by seanahan, over 2 years ago

Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:38:33 +0000

Reading the wikipedia page, there is one counterexample.

"Betty, a maid, and a rabbit". Is Betty a maid, or is she with a maid and rabbit? The only way to fix this is really to reorder the sentence.

Comment by notanotherjazzpoet, over 2 years ago

Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:24:43 +0000

I've never heard the comma in question as anything but the Oxford comma. I think of it, as does uselessness, as a matter of clarity. For instance, if I'm listing favo(u)rite ice cream flavors, I might say "Oh, I like vanilla, strawberry, chocolate, and peanut butter." Or I could say "I like vanilla, strawberry, chocolate and peanut butter." Without the serial comma, I clearly mean to enjoy the singular flavor chocolate and peanut butter, rather than chocolate ice cream and peanut butter ice cream. (Although, I will concede that an additional and might further clarify things.)

Comment by sionnach, over 2 years ago

Thu, 01 Mar 2007 17:40:45 +0000

yawn added sionnach, as he pandiculated in vulpine fashion.

Comment by reesetee, over 2 years ago

Thu, 01 Mar 2007 15:54:09 +0000

Chained_bear, what a coincidence. I are am an editor too! But no comment on the comma.

Comment by chained_bear, over 2 years ago

Thu, 01 Mar 2007 15:06:49 +0000

*clinks herself on the side of the teacup and rests comfortably on the saucer*

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:47:45 +0000

"Mummy! chained_bear's being a spoon and stirring! Make him/her stop!"

Comment by chained_bear, over 2 years ago

Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:58:51 +0000

Whatever the hell the comma's called, I'm an editor and I hate it. ;)
provoke provoke

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:05:19 +0000

Quite right too. I'd never heard of it being referred to as the 'Harvard' comma before, but I think we're all learning...

Comment by seanahan, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:53:31 +0000

I prefer Oxford Comma, and I always use it.

Comment by jennarenn, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:43:46 +0000

I am quite chagrined to learn that I have been using the wrong term. Can we all agree on the term "serial comma"?

BTW, here's a cute poem I found on Wikipedia about the comma in question.

The Oxford comma

A little knot of writers at a
prize-giving ceremony, standing
uncertainly, looking at the stage

and the side table with scrolls and envelopes
containing magical cheques, we discuss
to show erudition and hide fear

the Oxford comma and the use of it.
'Unnecessary,' someone offers. 'An extra
fence where no animal was escaping.'

'But perhaps a breath,' another suggests.
'A large egalitarian family being given pocket money
or sharing beds, a demarcation with bolsters.'

Victory, loss, effusions, and stoicism
someone thinks but doesn't say
as the crowd files in and takes their seats.

-Elizabeth Smither

Comment by uselessness, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:22:00 +0000

Harvard comma, hun, Harvard comma. Show some patriotism. ;-)

Comment by jennarenn, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:18:41 +0000

The Oxford comma isn't often used in American journalism. However, the workbooks I use with my second graders teach it.

Comment by uselessness, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:53:15 +0000

Cripes, I was just about to accuse you of being unnecessarily snobby with your ligatures, and then you pointed out my own pet snobbery. Generally, Americans drop that comma. I use it plentifully, purposefully, and provokingly. But there's a method to my craziness.

I'm a pragmatist. The Harvard comma makes sense because it indicates a pause and helps group concepts together, while separating clauses that might otherwise run together confusingly. My pragmatism is also the reason I prefer simplified, phonetic spellings. Call me a detriment to art. I just like clear communication.

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:37:36 +0000

By the same token, what's up with this American need to simplify all our perfectly good spelling? [Encyclopædia], [anapæst], and [Cæsar] just wouldn't be the same. (I scent an idea for a word list.) By the way, what's the American stance on the 'Oxford' comma, seeing as I seem to be using them with impunity? A comma before and, not, or on occasion?

Comment by uselessness, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:20:07 +0000

But seriously, what's up with using "æ" where a regular "e" will do just fine? Isn't that a bit pretentious? Sometimes I wonder if my European brethren and sistren are just ego tripping.

Not you, of course. I think you're wondærful. No ræally.

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:55:29 +0000

Hell hath no fury like a Brit scorned...let that be a lesson to us all.

Comment by uselessness, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:49:47 +0000

Let's just say I've rethought my policy on making Brits cross. :-P

Comment by abraxaszugzwang, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:09:42 +0000

uselessness, you coward! You had a similar remark and now I'M on thin ice!

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:07:40 +0000

Don't tempt me! You're skating on thin ice...

Comment by abraxaszugzwang, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:00:09 +0000

I didn't mean that I was offended. Like you, I was just thinking it's funny how attached people become to their spelling.

Btw, it's offense, not offence ;)

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:50:15 +0000

Now now, AZ, play nicely. Apologies for any offence caused. No-one ever wins the age-old UK/US spelling debate, but this never seems to deter anyone. It's incredible how attached people get to the way they do things, but I think it's for the best.

Comment by uselessness, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:46:19 +0000

I'm waiting for someone else to dip into the conversation and inform us that the word is actually schumbrhe. Pronounced "ZOOM burr high."

Comment by abraxaszugzwang, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:38:34 +0000

I think the new Wordie motto should be "everyone is wrong but me."

Comment by uselessness, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:25:35 +0000

Like you, AZ, I use theater for the cinema, and theatre for the playhouse. Not sure why. Just one of those old traditions. Both are pronounced "THEE uh durr" with the "th" sound more like in "think" than in "those." For what it's worth, I pronounce somber "SAHM burr."

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:24:57 +0000

Theatre, every time. Theater would push the stress from the first to second syllable, although it appears that Americans sometimes do this without having to bastardise (in the least pejorative of senses) the spelling - hearing ballet pronounced in the American way always sounds odd to me.

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:21:39 +0000

The first use of sombre that the Oxford English Dictionary records is in 1760; helpfully, it doesn't list somber. The Online Etymology Dictionary also lists 1760 (earlier sombrous, c.1730), but traces it origins to the French word 'sombre', meaning 'dark' or 'gloomy', and from there to Latin - 'subumbrare', meaning 'to shadow'. Interesting.
I'd pronounce it SOHM-buh.

Comment by abraxaszugzwang, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:20:11 +0000

how do you spell theatre? I prefer that spelling to theater, but only when it comes to plays as opposed to the movies . . . guess it has a built in sophistication. But I hate when people pronounce it thee-ate-er.

Comment by uselessness, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:14:43 +0000

I've actually never seen the British spelling of this word. When I read it, I pronounced it as Spanish: "SOHM bray." My Spanish skills are severely lacking, but it would seem to be a form of sombrar, which means "to shade." Highly irrelevant. I digress. Typically I like British spellings but sometimes (like in this case) I wish they were more phonetic. At least somber sounds like it looks.

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:04:09 +0000

Home is just outside London, but I'm currently studying elsewhere.

Comment by abraxaszugzwang, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:50:09 +0000

do you live in London?

Comment by madandcrazychild, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:40:36 +0000

I'm surprised to be the first to list sombre, especially when there are five who have listed somber - I assume the latter to be the American spelling, but I don't think I've ever come across it before...

Comment by abraxaszugzwang, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:32:16 +0000

good call on the spelling of sombre there

Comment by abraxaszugzwang, over 2 years ago

Sun, 25 Feb 2007 05:24:10 +0000

somber, dismal, dreary, down, down in the dumps, dejected, heavyhearted. Some of those you might not use to describe your own feeling.