An open list of 3 words by pterodactyl.
- droll was added by pterodactyl and appears on 99 other lists
- unique was added by mcmorgan and appears on 54 other lists
- i could care less was added by Prolagus and appears on 1 other list
An open list of 3 words by pterodactyl.
sarra ach! unique?! Apr 12, 2008
frindley Perhaps we need a list of positively defined words that have come to be used pejoratively (with or without a shift in meaning).
That might solve pterodactyl's conundrum regarding irony and its dependence on knowledge of a word's real meaning. Apr 12, 2008
frindley But does pejorative use of quaint actually require a change of meaning (strange, old-fashioned)?
The difference, as mollusque suggested re droll, is whether you like/approve of quaintness or not, and it emerges in tone of voice and context without implying a new meaning.
"While we were away we saw this quaint little cottage! It was so cute, I wanted to bring it home and put it in my garden and hire a hermit."
vs
"How quaint." Spoken with disdainful air and curled lip.
Whereas the usage pterodactyl cites for "droll" really does require the speaker to mean the opposite of the word itself. Apr 12, 2008
sionnach One of the reasons "droll" is a good candidate for this list IMO is because one can almost always hear the invisible air quotes (those guillemets or guillemots or Gänsefüsschen) the speaker places around them.
I think "quaint" is a candidate for much the same reason. Certainly, when used in the phrase "How quaint", the implied meaning is almost always pejorative. Apr 12, 2008
frindley In my experience "droll" still means humorous or amusing. It's sometimes the case that the word is applied with a condescending tone, as if the speaker is acknowledging the humour but doesn't quite want to admit to finding it funny. (This, I think, is very different from using the word to mean boring, stupid or humourless.)
But mostly I hear it used (when I hear it used) to acknowledge what the Shorter OED calls dry, whimsical humour, odd or unexpected. And in that context it is perhaps the greatest compliment to describe such humour as "droll" rather than the more mundane and less accurate "funny".
I really don't recall hearing/reading the usage that pterodactyl describes. Perhaps I should get out more Apr 12, 2008
yarb I have cited a non-ironic usage of droll. But I know what you mean, pterodactyl. You don't see it much these days. Apr 10, 2008
sarra Oh, no!
I use the droll tag here — and the word more widely — quite sincerely, covering both those two senses, I suppose (I'd not looked it up or thought about it before, but it does match my usage of the term): never as an insult, mild or otherwise. It does carry a connotation of recognition of a rather bad joke, but I have a lot of love for those.
I could write a lot more about droll humour… Apr 10, 2008
mollusque I think it depends whether you like drollness. Some people find it clever and cute, others find it stupid and cloying. OED2 recognizes two senses of droll: "Intentionally facetious, amusing, comical, funny" and "Unintentionally amusing; queer, quaint, odd, strange, 'funny'." Apr 10, 2008
pterodactyl Well, it's hard for me to describe, mollusque, but what I'm looking for are words which are never used literally, but only ironically. In all my life I've never heard "droll" used literally -- every single usage I've heard has been ironic.
It fascinates me that this is possible. Irony only makes sense if you know the literal meaning of the word you're using ironically. With the literal meaning of "droll" being pretty much dead, how is it that we're still able to use it ironically and be understood? Apr 10, 2008
mollusque Are you searching for that precise shift--humorous to boring--or just general worsening in meaning? If the latter, try searching for pejoration. Apr 10, 2008
chained_bear Hmm... I haven't heard people using droll in that sense... It's unfortunate, because it's quite a nice word, IMO. Apr 10, 2008
Prolagus We all will think about that, ter. Apr 10, 2008
pterodactyl I'm trying to find other words that have undergone the same transformation, but I can't think of any. Apr 10, 2008
pterodactyl Have you ever noticed that whenever a person says "Oh, how droll!", what they really mean is "Oh, how boring and stupid!"?
It amazes me that this word is still defined as "humorous". I bet that in 2108, all the dictionaries will define "droll" as "humorless", because that's the way people use the word nowadays.
Unless irony doesn't work like that. Apr 10, 2008